Now hang on to your hats for this one! The earliest illustrations of this rhyme showed not a boy and a girl, but two boys climbing a hill — Jack and Gill! The rhyme comes from an ancient Scandinavian myth about the markings on the moon. The moon god Mani captured two Norse children, Hjuki and Bil, while they were drawing water from a well. When the moon was full, the children could be seen with a bucket on a pole between them. This story, with the names changed to Jack and Jill, has evolved into our tale of heads over tails.

On August 10, 1998, Ron S. wrote:

2 cups in a pint
2 pints in a quart
2 quarts in a gill
2 gills in a gallon

Hold onto your hats for this one. The story is not about two Norse children but rather a corrupt King named Jack. He played with the standard for the unit of measurement Gill to receive more gold. He was found out and his Kingdom was lost, thus the line about how Jack fell down and broke his crown. The Gill was not used after that and thus the line the Gill came tumbling after. Ever wondered why the units for measuring go by twos except for a hole between a quart and a gallon? Now you know. In some good dictionaries you will find a Gill as a unit of liquid measurement.

On December 29, 1998, Kinsey Blomgren wrote:

Very interesting note about Jack and Jill, but it should also have been mentioned that 2 jiggers = 1 jack, 2 jacks = 1 jill, and 2 jills = 1 cup.

On January 3, 1999, Scott Jamieson wrote:

For what it's worth, I've always heard that Jack and Jill referred to another beheading — Louis XVI, and of course Marie Antoinette would be the Jill who came tumbling (in a tumbrel) after. Naturally, I don't insist on the interpretations that after all I've only heard, but I offer it for consideration.

On April 24, 1999, Sumo Assault wrote:

I read something on the rhyme Jack and Jill that it was actually a true story about a couple in Scotland by the name of Jack and Jill. Jack went up a hill to get a pail of water he slipped and fell and was killed, Jill so broken hearted died a not too long after. The site where this event occurred still exists and every year the villagers of that town like to reenact the story.

On April 29, 1999, Bradley W. Bishop wrote:

I like Scott Jamieson's interpretation, but I'd like to clarify it first, and then add a few facts that may confuse the issue a bit more.

Clarification:

1) Louis XVI was considered weak, ignorant, and distracted in comparison to his predecessors in the French Royalty. In 1770 he married Marie Antoinette who heavily influenced his decisions thereafter.
JACK AND JILL

2) Louis XVI's and Marie Antoinette became the King and Queen of France in 1774.
WENT UP THE HILL

3) In the Mid 1770's, France was amidst a financial crisis, and heavy taxation caused a nationwide withdrawal from royal patriotism. In order to quell the flames of rebellion arising amongst the people, Louis XVI remitted some of the most oppressive taxes and began financial and judicial reforms (like water from a pail).
TO FETCH A PAIL OF WATER;

4) The French Bourgeoisie would not allow for large enough reforms to be implemented. In July of 1789, the Parisian populace razed the Bastille, and imprisoned the king and royal family in the palace of the Tuileries.
JACK FELL DOWN

5) In 1792, when the National Convention declared France a republic, the king was tried for treason, convicted, and sentenced to death. Louis XVI was guillotined in Paris on January 21, 1793.
AND BROKE HIS CROWN,

6) After being separated from her son, Marie Antoinette was sent before the revolutionary tribunal, and sentenced to death for treason. She was guillotined in Paris on October 16, 1793. (a tumbling head)
AND JILL CAME TUMBLING AFTER.

Other Facts:
1) It is highly likely that the “Jack and Jill” story, as is clear with Mother Goose, has a French origin. In 1697 a French writer named Charles Perrault released a collection of eight famous folk tales called “Contes de ma mËre l'Oye” or “Tales of Mother Goose”. These tales, such as “Sleeping Beauty,” “Cinderella,” and “Red Riding Hood,” were translated into English in 1729.

2) With the invention of the press in the 15th Century, rhymes such as this moved away from religious origins and towards political and historical references. However "Jack and Jill" was originally published amongst a collection of traditional verses and jingles titled Mother Goose's Melody, by John Newbery in the Mid 1760's, which would precede the history of King Louis XVI.

It is interesting how this small tale foretold such a revolution under this interpretation.

On September 9, 2000, Hurricane Bob wrote:

Hello. I was reading your section on the rhyme “Jack and Jill”. Very interesting! I did not know some of those facts, and that the rhyme is of Scandanavian origin.

I had always thought that the rhyme was refering to the tale of Adam and Eve. I’d thought wither that, or some kind of loss of innocence (Jack fell down and broke his crown).

Well who knows!

Sincerely, Hurricane Bob

PS - Cool site

On November 12, 2000, Laura Marie Wertz wrote:

I have also read that Jack and Jill were a young couple in Kilmersdon, England during the 15th century. There was a hill where the two used to go to be alone. Jill became pregnant with Jack's baby but Jack was killed by a boulder several months after she conceived. Jill died in childbirth only a couple days after Jack’s death. Love the site!

On June 6, 2001, Jonathan Woolson wrote:

On the subject of Jack and Jill (or Gill):

Jack and Jill went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water;
Jack fell down and broke his crown,
And Jill came tumbling after.

Please see page 174 of Wired magazine June 2001 issue for a considered opinion on the origin of Jack and Jill (or Gill). It is quite close to the comment on your site from “August 10, 1998, Ron S.” who also notes that:
2 cups in a pint
2 pints in a quart
2 quarts in a gill
2 gills in a gallon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To paraphrase Wired:

The crown (a ?crown? gets broken) in question is Charles I of England who, during the 1640s, attempted to increase tax revenue by reducing the liquid measure of a jack*. He maintained the same tax rate on the decreased volume. Less drink for the same money. This lead to a protest in verse that became ?Jack and Gill?. A gill was measured as 2 jacks. The jack “fell” into disuse because of the inequity and soon after the gill was no longer used as well. Charles I reign lead to a protracted civil war** over oppressive rule, religion, and taxation that resulted in Charles I beheading in 1649. A broken crown indeed. The strength of The Crown (British Monarchy as a whole) was significantly weakened by these events.

There are many parts of this interpretation and characterization that seem ambiguous at best. In the verse, Jack is the one who falls, but the historical Charles is the one who is beheaded. While the slicing quality of a beheading is not properly mirrored in the blunt trauma that our protagonist Jack’s uncontrolled descent would produce, I think the story of a “fall” that precipitates a “broken crown” is a lovely parallel for a fall from grace of a King, resulting in death of said King and weakening of the Monarchy as a whole.

* Based on the note from Ron S., perhaps a jack was similar to a quart in volume? If so, then it could have likely been a popular measure for ale at the public houses (pubs) and any change in taxation would have been felt by the drinking public with every transaction. The lesson: don't mess with a man’s beer unless you want to lose your head.

** The civil war pitted the Parlimentarians (rule by the people and aristocracy) against the Monarchists (rule by the king). Oliver Cromwell, a Puritan and Parlimentarian routed the Monarchist forces in 1646. Charles I surrendered to Scottish forces in 1647 (who were miffed about having to read from a new prayer book ordered by Charles I). In 1648, Charles was put on trial for treason; the tribunal, by a vote of 68 to 67, found the king guilty and ordered his execution in 1649, resulting in a broken “crown” (or monarchy). Talk about cutting it close!

On June 27, 2001, Kevin Stryker wrote:

Jack and Jill is one of the more agreed-upon nursery rhymes for scholars. Jack of course is the alternative name for John (for example, John F. Kennedy = Jack Kennedy). King John of England was in a fight with the Pope over who should replace the Arch Bishop seat that was left when Arch Bishop Walter died. (A little explanation of English here… an “L” after an “A” in English changes the sounding of the “A” from a short “A” to a “ahhhh” sound as in “palm” and “calm.” But we don’t say “water” with a short “A” , we say it with a “ahhhh” sounding “A” as if it had an “L” after it. So the play on words is the “water” in the pail and the “Walter” that is dead. A pail is a play on words with a piece of religious clothing that Arch Bishops wear.) So King John (Jack) went up the hill (fight against the Pope) to fetch the Arch Bishop seat for his pick (his “girl” or the one he picked) but the Pope won, thus King John “broke his crown” or in other words failed in his fight against the Pope and was humiliated (broke his crown).

On August 2, 2001, Kieran O’Keeffe wrote:

Very interesting interpretations of Jack & Jill. However, I have to wonder if you have heard of this SECOND verse:

Up Jack got and down he trot
As fast as he could caper;
And went to bed and covered his head
In vinegar and brown paper.

Does anyone know of the origin of this, and any possible interpretations?

On November 21, 2001, G A John wrote:

...Kevin Stryker wrote:

...A little explanation of English here… an “L” after an “A” in English changes the sounding of the “A” from a short “A” to a “ahhhh” sound as in “palm” and “calm.” But we don’t say “water” with a short “A” , we say it with a “ahhhh” sounding “A” as if it had an “L” after it. So the play on words is the “water” in the pail and the “Walter” that is dead....

My comment:

I would remove this from your website, as I have never heard such nonsense.

Where did the writer get the idea that putting an L after an a softens the sound. This is a typical example of people attempting to make up rules for English pronunciation. Here are some examples to show the rule is nonsensical:

Palm, Balm, Calm obey the rule

Halt, Malt, Salt do not obey the rule.

The more appropriate rule suggested by this is that 'lm' softens the 'a', not just the 'l'. In fact the name Walter follows the same pronunciation in English as the words halt, malt and salt. I know that Walter is prononunced with a soft 'a' in German, but not in English.

I have no idea where Mr Stryker derives his pronunciation of the word 'water'. There are two pronunciations in English that I am aware of; the international pronunciation - as 'wart'+'err', and the coloquial pronunciation in northern counties of England, where the 'a' is shortened and hardened as in word 'bat'. I have never heard the word 'water' pronounced with a softened 'a' as in 'palm'

Where that leaves the rest of his theory I do not know.

G A John
Nottingham, U.K.

On March 22, 2002, robbie gregson wrote:

great site. the rhyme jack and jill has various and colourful interpretations how ever the rhyme realy depicts both jack and jill falling seperately down a hill after trying to aquire some water, to be carried in a lo-tec receptical. i.e. a bucket. Hope that clears things up a bit for you.

On May 15, 2002, Myles Gorton wrote:

P...

I like the Nursery Rhyme pages and in most cases am happy to accept the explanations... I’m quite surprised how much controversy the Jack and Jill Rhyme has caused, long may it continue! One point, in the UK, spirits were served in measurements of fractions of Gills, and so I was surprised by Ron S’s...

2 cups in a pint
2 pints in a quart
2 quarts in a gill
2 gills in a gallon

I instantly felt I had been severely short changed, a shot of whisky at 1/6th Gill should by these figures be 2/3rds of a pint, a far cry from the piddling drop served in Bars.

So insensed was I that I checked up and found that 1 Gill is 1/4 of a pint (or 1/2 a cup) And that is the same for US or UK pints (which I hitherto assumed would be equal). This makes more sense as a shot now comes in at 1/24 of a pint, which seems about right.

Also, (incase you put this on the site) I am aware that some bars (notably in Scotland) used measurements of 1/5 or 1/6 of a gill and in fact all this is probably converted to metric now and so we may have lost a link to the Jack and Jill Rhyme to the Millilitre (25ml per shot now) and European Union!

Anyhow, just thought it might add some more fuel to the Jack and Jill fire.

Regards
Myles Gorton.

On July 17, 2002, Kevin Stryker wrote:

G.A. John needs to read other emails in this directory and realize that temperamental attacks have no place. Disregarding the fact that his examples of “lt” words only bolstered my point, and that words that look alike don’t necessarily derive from the same origin, the analysis I provided was merely a regurgitation of scholarly analysis already published, and, as I understand, fairly well accepted (and not my creative linguistic fancies). If G.A. John, as it appears, has takes some personal offense to such analysis, he needs to address that community with his own proposals and not merely rebut the analysis by claiming ignorance to any personal knowledge regarding certain pronunciations.

Regarding some of the other comments. Very interesting. The reason I tend to accept the version I wrote about is that (1) it tends to fit the history more tightly into the rhyme and (2) it includes the use of puns, which was a very common literary devise in past centuries (much more common than now). Now, the Jack and Jill poem, because of its reference to a “crown,” a “hill,” and a "fall," can obviously fit almost any historical rise and fall of a monarch. So I look to find more than simply that generic pattern to find a match. The only hesitation I have with my previous explanation is that scholars are often in disagreement about origins and developments of words through time, regarding pronunciations and spelling let alone meaning. Still, the explanations I’ve read regarding the puns I’ve described seem very plausible and, therefore, I tend to favor that origin. Great job everyone! – Kevin

On November 12, 2002, Melissa N wrote:

I wasn't sure where i could put a comment about this poem, so I emailed here...

Jack and Jill dates further back than Shakespeare. In A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Shakespeare uses Jack and Jill to refer to the moon. The moon is a repeating image in the play, so the myth about the two kids carrying the bucket of water is most likely the real origin of Jack and Jill. To quote Shakespeare:
And the country proverb known,
that every man should take his own,
In your waking shall be shown:
Jack shall have Jill;
Naught shall go ill;
The man shall have his mere again, and all shall be well. (MND, 3:2:458-464)

Thanks,
Melissa

On December 21, 2002, Robin E. Gadbury wrote:

Just a comment on the second verse of Jack and Jill.

Up Jack got
And home did trot
As fast as he could caper
To Old Dame Dob,
Who plastered his knob
With vinegar and brown paper.

Vinegar and brown paper produces a substance known as DMSO. Dr. David Williams, in “Miracle Healer — DMSO”, says, “DMSO was shown to provide quick pain relief, stop headaches, and even speed healing of strains, sprains and burns.” So you see why his knob was treated with vinegar and brown paper.

On August 12, 2004, Les Pacey wrote:

The nursery rhyme “Jack & Jill” actually marks the event in English history, whereby, in the 17th century, King Charles I tried to reform the taxes on liquid measures. He was blocked by Parliament, so subsquently ordered that the volume of a Jack (1/2 pint) be reduced, but the tax remained the same. This meant that he still received more tax, despite the Parliament veto! Hence “Jack fell down and broke his crown” (many pint glasses in the UK still have a line marking the 1/2 pint level with a crown above it!) “& Jill came tumbling after”. The reference to “Jill”, (actually a “gill”, or 1/4 pint) is an indication that the gill dropped in volume as a consequence.

Although many people even in the UK are unaware of the origins, this is the officially recognised source of the rhyme.

On August 16, 2004, Trish and Barry wrote:

I have never before come across such imaginative and fanciful explanations of the old English nursery rhyme. What rubbish people put forward. Obviously they are not English, and obviously do not know their English history, or even the liquid measures.

Two gills to the gallon indeed! And some people cannot even spell gill correctly. What utter baloney. A gill, also known as a quartile, has always been a quarter of an English pint.

The cup is a modern measure, as is a jigger. Speaking of which, what rubbish to say “2 jiggers = 1 jack”? The jigger is a relatively recent American invention, which is double ended and can be a few different volumes.

Then there are all those who theorise about English or French political origins. Such people need to research the matter properly after which they will find that one or two people were in fact correct in saying that Jack and Jill were real characters, and the rhyme depicted a real event recounted by professional story tellers.

On January 2, 2005, John Olivieri wrote:

Hi. Stumbled onto your site trying to figure out the second half of Mary Mary and ended up checking out the rest. Interesting.

Not sure why, but I always thought that Jack’s crown was his head. It didn’t make sense that if he was some sort of prince he'd be fetching water, or wearing his crown when he did if he did. My idea — and it has no foundation whatsoever — was that Jack and Jill had some sort of altercation and perhaps she pushed him down the hill and he cracked his skull open. Her fit of insane passion passes, she realizes what she's done, is distraught, and throws herself after him, a la Buttercup after Westley in The Princess Bride. Because if she was thinking clearly, certainly she would have been more careful about getting to the bottom in one piece and fetching help for poor Jack with his busted head.

Never heard a second verse. Interesting. What happened to Jill? Did Jack trot away without her? (Completely understandable if she did push him...)

I'm amazed at the strength of some people's feelings about where these rhymes come from.

Don't take my babbling too seriously,
J.A

On December 2, 2005, N W wrote:

www.foodreference.com/html/fjackandjill.html
 
"Jack and Jill went up the hill....." the 'jill' in this nursery rhyme refers to what we now call a 'gill', a unit of liquid measure equal to half a cup. A 'jack' was a 2 ounce measure of wine, and a 'jill' was twice the size of a 'jack'. When Charles I of England (1600-1649) reduced the size of the 'jack' so he could collect a higher tax, the 'jill' was automatically reduced in size also — “and 'jill' came tumbling after.”

Sincerely,
N W

On May 9, 2006, Thom Stephens wrote:

Great website

I find it queer that in eight years of discussion in re: Jack and Jill,  the obvious absurdity of climbing “up the hill to fetch a pail of water” has escaped the attention of modern readers, no matter how eudite. Water runs downhill, does it not? The effect of gravity on water would not have escaped our pragmatic ancestors, who dealt with daily tasks like fetching water as a matter of survival. Unlike jaded moderns, our forebears and their young children would have greeted the first line of this apparent nonsense rhyme with immediate mirth. So much for “enlightened” moderns.

In any case, I find the “Jack and Jigger” royal tax tantrum a stretch-fit explanation compared to deeper fathomings with universal themes, as witness the waxing and waning moon. Here’s what the Madison (Wisconsin) Planetarium declares in respect to our tumbling duo:

www.madison.k12.wi.us/planetarium/jacknjill.pdf

“Some folklorists have traced the origin of the Jack and Jill nursery rhyme to a Scandinavian story about two children who were kidnapped by Mani, the moon. Their names were Hjuki (pronounced "juk-ee") and Bil. Changing cultures, Hjuki became Jack, and Bil was changed to Jill. At first, this connection may seem like a stretch, but linguists have determined that Hjuki (a.k.a. Jack) might have been derived from the Swedish verb “jakka”, which means assemble, or increase. And Bil (a.k.a Jill) might have come from "bila", which means to breakup, dissolve, or decrease. Just like the constellations of stars in the sky, people have also looked at the dark spots on the moon (maria) and have imagined many things, including Jack and Jill. If we imagine Jack on the right half, and Jill on the left half, this matches nicely with the monthly cycle of the moon phases.

While the moon is “waxing” (astronomy term) from New Moon to Full Moon, the illuminated (lighted) portion of the side of the moon we see is increasing, and Jack is the first to appear, and remains the whole time. While the moon is "waning" from Full Moon back to New Moon, the illuminated portion is decreasing, and Jill is the last to disappear.

So while the moon is waxing, Jack is the one that is visible the most, and when the moon is waning, Jill is the one that is visible the most.

And the nursery rhyme itself fits the order of the phases even better. Starting at a New Moon phase, Jack appears first, followed by Jill, so they are then visible on “the hill” together when the moon is full. Then Jack disappears, or “falls” first, and Jill “comes tumbling after,” and you are back to a New Moon again. It takes about a month for the moon to go from a New Moon phase back to a New Moon phase again.”

On December 7, 2006, Michel Dyke wrote:

The full rhyme was not quoted. This is just a simple story told to children and one without connection to anyone real or living or dead.

Jack and Jill

There are many possible roots of this rhyme or story, but let’s look at the ORIGINAL words first:

Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down and broke his crown
And Jill came tumbling after

Up Jack got,
And home did trot.
As fast as he could caper.
To old Dame Frown,
Who patched his crown,
With vinegar and brown paper

When Jill came in, how she did grin,
To see Jack's paper plaster.
Her Mother, vexed, did whip her next,
For laughing at Jack's disaster.

Now Jack did laugh
And Jill did cry
But her tears did soon abate.
Then Jill did say
That they should play
At seesaw across the gate.

On April 26, 2007, Don Barnes wrote:

Of course Jack & Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. That's where the DEW PONDS were.